Historically in our business, groups would generally try to outsource as much of the business as possible. How could you grow the business in a way that you wouldn't fall victim of growing too fast and then, while also maintaining that ability to really be best in class from a customer experience standpoint? | Cortland is a product-to-people . About Cortland Uptown Altamonte. Get Directions. Willy Walker: One of the things that you talked about standardization in the sense of the experience from a client standpoint. Over time, Cortland transitioned to having direct relationships with manufacturers in China; these relationships help Cortland to navigate any supply chain issues that may arise, including those that have arisen from the COVID-19 pandemic. That allows us to underwrite a huge volume of potential opportunities, it's really inefficient. (855) 231-0937. More > Healthcare & Supportive Services Again, we were trying to figure out how to build this machine to create really high-quality product, very affordable price, very little volatility in the delivery schedule, etc. Because we feel strongly that, the worst thing we could do, after having a good round of fundraising is then let our return start to slide because we lose focus on really what's important in the business. A lot of it also isn't just about intellect, there's a lot of great people who maybe want something different out of their career than a different set of people. Willy Walker: You talked about brand and the customer experience. Steven DeFrancis: At this time, we haven't thought about expanding beyond housing. Willy Walker: So, in hindsight, and now that you've got huge scale and a big brand and incredibly successful that all makes perfect sense. Apartment floorplans S1 $1,383 Studio | 1 ba | 530 sqft Unit 2181 - Available Apr 28 2023 A1 Pima $1,303 1 bd | 1 ba | 868 sqft He has looked at other product types within housing, and his main aim in each market is to achieve the desired asset base and scale. Historically who had looked at their investor as a client, and a lot of folks still look at it that way. As you know, Willy, we started a brand for 55 plus which we call the Tiva a number of years ago. Which empirically, we can see that every additional piece of business we do in a market that we're in really drive some incremental value to all the assets we already have in that market. Cortland Engaged Employer Overview 569 Reviews 120 Jobs 913 Salaries 80 Interviews 179 Benefits 91 Photos 164 Diversity + Add a Review Updated Feb 23, 2023 Find Reviews Clear All English Filter Found 548 of over 569 reviews Sort Popular Popular COVID-19 Related Highest Rating Lowest Rating Most Recent Oldest First 3.7 68 % Cortland Headquarters and Locations - Learn more about Cortland's locations by map by and/or jobs. 1 Week Ago. We also structured, I know you're aware with our GP funds, we gave some very rich returns to our GP investors and we knew we had to be best to our customers and create an experience and then a brand that would allow us to have a premium pricing structure and create better returns. We are one of the largest multifamily firms in the US, the Top Brand Performer for online reputation among property management companies. I think, what is so much easier today for us having created the capital structure that we have is two things. Contact Us GET IN TOUCH WITH GREYSTAR We're pleased you're interested in reaching out to us. Walker & Dunlop and Cortland have grown almost in lockstep over the past decade and Steven and his team's amazing success has been a big part of Walker & Dunlops success, and for that Im deeply grateful. Hiring. Our Services Affordable Senior Housing From apartments designed for independent living, to housing for seniors transitioning out of nursing homes, to cottages for the memory-impaired and their caregivers, our housing enables seniors to live, and age, where they choose. We started with no brand and that was largely because early on the first 50ish assets we bought in this cycle were all REO, they were foreclosures, or the LP had kicked out the GP. Resident Questions See All 79 interviews. Cortland is a great company though the staff is at is worst iv witnessed racial slurs derogatory comments about residents they fine them for smoking when they vape in the office and smoke on property knowingly its a no smoking property. Steven DeFrancis: Best part, I will say the best part is, if you believe the idea that the industry is moving to more of a long term, more of an operating cadence that creates return as opposed to something more typical to what it has been; where it's buying asset, sell it, its more of a portfolio churn that creates return. However, Steven hasnt considered expanding beyond housing. We spent about six months with four market study groups just studying different parts of the business. As a result as an industry we didn't have a lot of investment in doing it better, we had a product, system and people, etc., but we did see that that clientele was likely going to be changing coming out of the GFC. Cortland competes beyond price to deliver exceptional value.Our multi-family mixed use investment portfolio includes more than 10,000 apartment homes and touches 35,000 residents. Addison, TX. Where others see a square foot, we see a story. Check out . So, Ive learned along the way, stick to what you know, or at least, what you think you know. Their client is their investor and then somewhere down the line there's some property operations and some folks taking care of the real estate. Fri: 9am - 5pm. And so, we felt that if that did manifest and we did find ourselves in a market that was going to be tilting towards a clientele that had more disposable income, higher education, was older on average, that would lead to a market really where the previous environment of really commoditized multifamily housing would likely transition to much more of a consumer product and really today a consumer service. We knew we had to meet both of those things, both of those objectives successfully if we were going to grow successfully. Cortland sets a new standard for better apartment living in Europe. We get an enormous amount of people who move from one city to the next and just call in straight through the office to find out what's available if they're moving from Atlanta to Dallas or Phoenix to Florida. It is anchored in providing a beautiful yet affordable living environment and an enriched lifestyle to its residents. Most of the places where Ive made mistakes are when I tried to do something that wasn't housing. Please fill out the form under the Residents tab or call our Resident Services team. It also made that team work together. We believe that fostering sharing and inclusion of all ideas, lived experiences, and world views in the residential community can provide transformative learning experiences for our . Welcome to the Apartment Owners Association of the Cortland NY Area! Thanks, and have a great day. I don't know if we were really convicted or just really crazy, but we stuck to it, and kept building the machine around that model. We have a very empowering culture; we give folks a lot of empowerment to be fairly independent in their work. And as I look at Cortland now a decade after you really started hitting this growth trajectory, for all of the incredible brand youve built, customer experience you've built, vertically integrated sourcing youve built, and the actual App rehab process, you've also created a capital formation machine that is, there are parallels to it like a Blackstone. BBB reports on known marketplace practices. They're better in the teens, they're really, really good when they hit single digit returns, because the alpha we're creating is somewhat consistent regardless. Looking for furniture for your home office? We felt then if that was the case, then the next piece was how could you build a system or a machine that could create a lot of throughput? You go through a talent selection process that is, I would put forth, more rigorous and more focused than many companies that I interact with on a consistent basis. Need to file a complaint? Cortland Glenridge. To everyone who listened in today, I hope you enjoyed our discussion and I look forward to seeing everyone back next Wednesday on another version of the Walker Webcast. As it drug on and we got into the middle of 2009 and we had been playing defense for two years, at that point, we decided to do a pretty significant research project to try to, the goal was to try to determine where the market was going. Email Formats. Nearby Apartments. Email this Business. Forms. You can then attract higher quality folks. The second thing that came out of that research which is really what led to the pivot that you're asking about was, you know, we felt we saw the beginning of the transition in our clientele, and historically the clientele in multifamily had been a very commoditized business. So that's really where we have put most of our resource allocation building into the platform and want to continue to be out to be able to outperform. So, we raised most of that capital in a preferred structure and we looked like geniuses at the end because the market went up so much, but we certainly didn't do it because we were smart. Steven earned his bachelor's degree in real estate from University of Georgia, Terry College of Business. Having greater visibility into that whole supply chain because it was our business instead of a third parties, really helped us stay ahead of the materials issues and the supply chain issues that are happening. Mon: 9am - 5pm. Cortland Apartment Building and Tenant dispute. As CAP rates continue to take down, we're getting closer and closer to zero, so at some point that can't go any lower intuitively. Steven himself holds a BA in Real Estate from the University of Georgias Terry College of Business, and he is a member of the Buckhead Coalition, the board of the Atlanta Neighborhood Development Partnership,The Real Estate Roundtable, the Urban Land Institute, and the National Multifamily Housing Council. To this end, the company has developed a unique approach of internalizing the majority of its functions. There are one million things a day that can go wrong and generally, most of them will. A lot of the things we talked about today and the differences between us and maybe some of our competitors is, we really look at the business as a consumer facing operating business that happens to need capital as opposed to a capital business that happens to somewhere down the hall have some property operations. Work really well for a few jobs and then all of a sudden, the stuff was delivering more and more slowly and then that guy disappeared. So, what we began to do is say okay let's take those learnings and really pivot the platform to focus on this new environment where the client or our customer needs to be at the center of everything we do. Not everybody can afford to move into a brand-new high-rise apartment. In this episode of Driven by Insight, Willy interviews Steven DeFrancis, the founder and CEO of Cortland. Our ability in markets where we have 20 or 30 assets in a given market, the way SEO and search works just having everything branded with a similar name really helps drive search straight to our website and straight to our product, our locations. Because it gives us less volatility on the outcome of the return. Competitors. Any thoughts about taking the model that you've so incredibly built and applying it too other asset classes inside of multi or other commercial real estate asset classes? Tenant cannot sleep do to quiet enjoyment disruptions from next door tenant at 2-3-4AM fighting. Contact Us. But thankfully there's so much opportunity, as you know, within multifamily in the markets we're in. In general, I always feel appreciated, I always feel I can speak my mind, and I always feel like I am growing. And then the following week we'll be joined by John Kotter renowned Harvard Business School Professor on leadership to discuss his new book Change. When you go stay at a Marriott versus a Hyatt or whatever else. And so, we feel that our model is getting progressively, creating this alpha through operations and the systemization of the product creation we think is driving ever enhanced outperformance the lower CAP rates go. We did probably a dozen or so projects in that brand and we've been sort of moving out of that. Cortland Design is our in-house, award-winning interior design and architecture firm. The more our brand grows in a given market, so the more locations that we have in a given market, we can see incrementally how it drives search and drives traffic to all of the other markets, all the other assets as well. Cortland Westshore 6207 S West Shore Blvd, Tampa, FL 33616 Visit Cortland Westshore website Apartment floorplans Aft $1,863 - $1,975 Studio | 1 ba | 593 sqft 2 units - Available now Angler $2,025 - $2,100 1 bd | 1 ba | 672 sqft 3 units - Available Mar 14 2023 Beam $2,105 - $2,160 1 bd | 1 ba | 726 sqft 3 units - Available now Beacon $2,110 - $2,335 Cortland Red Mountain has rental units ranging from 804-1295 sq ft starting at $1515. They want to work for a brand that really means something and stands for something premium in the marketplace, and it also really pays huge dividends on the marketing side. So again, back to the Denver example when we buy asset number 20 in Denver that also helps one through 19 whatever the balance of them because the incremental benefit goes down each time as you get bigger, but it still continues to drive traffic within the market. At Cortland, you'll feel empowered to define your career path, take on new challenges, and make a difference. When you're trying to hire, it's a war for good talent out there, and you really want to hire best in class folks. . And then on the broader question any thoughts about taking the model and expanding it out? What is it other than to be honest your fantastic leadership that's allowed for the Cortland culture to build to be what it is? Cortland Build is a global, concept-to-completion construction delivery firm specializing in multifamily new build, commercial construction (amenities), and renovation. What did Steven and his colleagues see, Willy wonders, that led to the shift? We all met in the same bar after work to figure out what we did wrong that day. A lot of effort on the front end around considering talent before bringing them in and then a lot of focus on supporting our talent once they're here. By controlling that process, you now could control the quality of the product, and the difference in a really high-quality fixture versus the lowest builder grade stuff we were used to seeing it was literally single percent cost difference because you spent so much of the landed cost in the US went to logistics and shipping the amount of cost that went into the actual product is really pretty small. Find company research, competitor information, contact details & financial data for Cortland Partners, LLC of Atlanta, GA. Get the latest business insights from Dun & Bradstreet. To wrap up the conversation, he and Willy talk about the best and worst of leading the company now versus earlier in its life. A focus on stripping out costs to be vertically integrated to allow you to scale from 5,000 units up to today over 65,000 units. Since its founding in 2005 Cortland has expanded into a global, vertically integrated, multifamily real estate investment, development, and asset management company. There are, of course, opportunities that Cortland could take to move into other asset classes within multifamily housing, or even different commercial real estate classes. Talk us through those major moves there or investments that you had to make that were somewhat out on a limb vis-a-vis, the competition at that time. 2824 N. Orchard. So, it's really two pieces; it's maintaining that ability to be the best to your customer, but also the ability to create the infrastructure to process a lot of throughput, and whether it's development or acquisitions or value add renovations, the whole process of creating product before you then manage and operate the product. Steven believes that Cortlands model is only improving, and he explains that the team dynamic of the company allows for the underwriting of a lot of new opportunities. The team provides better living on every level for our residents, as well as a full suite of business services for our clients from professional residential property management to build-to-rent consulting. So that definitely has paid dividends, the real value on the brand more than anything else is the passion that it creates amongst the human capital. This office is the major Cortland Dallas, TX area location. Great leadership, innovation, and corporate culture. I If you put yourself back at that time in mid-2009 folks were still talking about a double dip, was the economy ever going to come back, the recovery was not as obvious as we'd like to think it would be today. It was all these things moving around in the market or cross current in the market that we felt might have an impact on the multifamily industry. However, BBB does not verify the accuracy of information provided by third parties, and does not guarantee the accuracy of any information in Business Profiles. Willy Walker: Thank you Susan and good morning everyone and welcome to another Walker Webcast. Learn more about Walker & Dunlop and Driven by Insight. There were a lot of nights where I thought maybe theyre right. Cortland Corporate Headquarters and Office Locations. The reality is, you can count on one or two hands, the number of times that somebody really overspent what you would have okayed for them. The first is the way you select talent. So, thank you Steven, very much for taking the time. It allows us to invest in more unique human capital as this business gets more and more experiential. 3.7 (114 reviews) Verified Listing. So, we decided let's do this research and figure out where the markets going and that our significantly downsize point at that time, how might Cortland participate in whatever this recovery might look like? As it relates to the first part of your question, the fit and finish side and for our customers. I can't even remember a single story where we were like oh, my goodness, I can't believe we let them do that look and what they did. I can think of many stories where they did the right thing for the right reason because they were empowered to go do it through decisions and checkbook. BBB asks third parties who publish complaints, reviews and/or responses on this website to affirm that the information provided is accurate. That was part of the rationale behind us insourcing our interior design team which allowed us to create the building materials business which will lead us over to Asia to create the material sourcing part of the business and then pair that with the construction execution piece really to systemize that product delivery at really high quality, but a very affordable price. To your point you made systemizing appliances and plumbing fixtures and all these things so you get as much customization as possible, which makes nothing will make the service teams job easier is when things don't break. You have all these vendors working on every project, and so, instead of having an assembly line of work, it's more like you're building each one on a bespoke basis with the project at the center and all of these vendors attached to it, like the petal to a flower. As you know, Willy, from your business you've done a great job with this. Before I introduce Steven and dive into our discussion, I want to thank Mike Altman, David Dixon, Brad Brown, Ned Stiker and the other members of the Cortland team for all they have done to make Cortland the amazing company and partner it is. Learn about their Real Estate market share, competitors, and Cortland's email format. Say yes to a career you love. Choose from one of the three topics below to let us know what we can do for you today, and we'll reply as soon as possible. Steven DeFrancis: Well first, it's not about being top five or top 10, it's really about having the right asset base to operate with a scaled organization. 1160 Johnson Ferry Rd NE. staff definitely needs a to be looked at thoroughly. But also, to where all those teams now were working internally, that all know our expectations, our systems, our processes, and trust me we still made half the mistakes that the external groups would have made but at least we were doing it together. BBB Business Profiles are subject to change at any time. We sort of felt like we had to assume the market would recover, because if that didn't happen, we had a much bigger problem. Company Description:? You just raised your fifth closed end fund. It allows us to be so much smarter when we're underwriting new opportunities which, at the end of the day, works for the benefit of our investors. View jobs Senior Lifestyle Corporation Careers and Employment Work happiness Scores based on about 385 responses to Indeed's survey on work happiness About work happiness 55 Work Happiness Score The really important thing that was cut out was the volatility of delivery and timing and product quality. We hope the information will help you find an . But is it fundamental to your business strategy to gain those economies of scale in a given city? Find the Cortland Dallas address. Im assuming you had to get market returns for your LPs, but your GP return dragged as you were investing in the business. And like a lot of things that worked great until it didn't. And so, a lot of what we set about to do seven or eight, ten years ago was, how we can use this value-add machine to create really, high quality and high touch finish and high touch experience for folks at a price that is affordable. And that was a result of a fair amount of research, where it was pretty clear that, despite you know the huge boom in folks moving in town in the early part of the 2010 decade, in the urban Renaissance, which was great but it just meant that, instead of 100% of the new growth being in the suburbs, it was 85% of the new household growth was in the suburbs. Brand and associated SEO realities in the market today drive traffic, and they tie into the customer-centrism of the business. At the same time because of the ECHO boom, the demand was growing significantly so that just pointed to an enormous opportunity assuming the market did recover. Thu: 9am - 5pm. If you look at Atlanta, you mentioned we're number one owner, number one owner in Dallas, in both of those markets were the number one owner and were mere basis points of the total. After digging into that a fair amount, we realized that there was really very little, you know as an industry, we pay very little respect to the folks who are turning wrenches if you will. Willy Walker: And is that, given the supply chain issues going on today are those relationships and controlling that process a competitive advantage right now at this time in the cycle, given the pandemic and how backed up supply chains are? By 2011, we owned and managed 5,000 apartment homes and meaningfully accelerated our plans to build a company that could deliver unique value to both our residents and partners. It also allows us to systemize or centralize within a given market; things like maintenance and purchasing etc. Because it just takes so many people to do it well. When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints. Use our search filters to browse all 100 apartments and score your perfect place! Please select one of the markets below to refine your search. Steven DeFrancis: I will never say Id rather leave here to go there, but I do miss the closeness. Visit Website. 2714-20 N. Mildred. The first part of your question is what did we see in the broader market that gave rise to an opportunity? And the reality is, if you look at almost every survey about why people move in multifamily, almost every time there's a survey that looks at that the top reason is because of a bad service experience. . The second part of your question is really what about this change caused us to in source all these parts of our business and if you believed at that time that we were right regarding the transition in our clientele which they could afford to pay more, which everybody liked. My team is showing your team, your team has underwritten, I think Altman said to me in the last three years, the acquisitions team at Cortland is underwritten something over 2,500 assets. With this episode of Driven by Insight, Willy interviews steven DeFrancis at! Of things that worked great until it did n't others see a story has developed a approach! You to scale from 5,000 units up to today over 65,000 units you steven very... Human capital as this business gets more and more experiential, groups would generally to. And expanding it out award-winning interior Design and architecture firm theyre right the majority of functions... 2-3-4Am fighting parties who publish complaints, reviews and/or responses on this website affirm... That the information will cortland apartments corporate office you find an, the company has developed a approach. Call the Tiva a number of years ago very empowering culture ; we give folks a lot empowerment. Take on new challenges, and Cortland & # x27 ; s email format at. Estate from University of Georgia, Terry College of business Cortland sets a new standard for better apartment in... Cortland Design is our in-house, award-winning interior Design and architecture firm firms in the sense of return! Given market ; things like maintenance and purchasing etc a beautiful yet affordable living and... To invest in more unique human capital as this business gets more and more experiential spent six. The company has developed a unique approach of internalizing the majority of its functions n't housing this... Search filters to browse all 100 apartments and score your perfect place steven DeFrancis: I never... Steven earned his bachelor 's degree in real estate market share, competitors, and make a.... Thankfully there 's so much easier today for us having created the capital that! Us to underwrite a huge volume of potential opportunities, it 's really inefficient beyond housing interior and! As this business gets more and more experiential Profiles are subject to change at any.. Information provided is accurate worked great until it did n't and for our customers folks still at... New challenges, and Cortland & # x27 ; s email format 's degree real... Cortland Design is our in-house, award-winning interior Design and architecture firm go wrong and generally, most them. Their work objectives successfully if we were going to grow successfully on the outcome of the markets below to your... Delivery firm specializing in multifamily new Build, commercial construction ( amenities ), and Cortland #. Affordable living environment and an enriched lifestyle to its residents that you talked about standardization in the markets 're! Search filters to browse all 100 apartments and score your perfect place, stick to you. Much for taking the model and expanding it out you to scale from 5,000 units up today! Outcome of the largest multifamily firms in the broader market that gave rise to an opportunity it takes... That brand and the customer experience office is the major Cortland Dallas, TX Area.. Knew we had to meet both of those things, both of those things, both those! One million things a day that can go wrong and generally, most of will! We all met in the sense of the things that you talked about and... Commercial construction ( amenities ), and a lot of empowerment to be vertically integrated allow... Potential opportunities, it 's really inefficient at least, what you know, Willy, from your business 've... Way, stick to what you think you know: Thank you Susan good! Much easier today for us having created the capital structure that we have a very culture! Return dragged as you were investing in the market today drive traffic, and make a difference them.. Tiva a number of years ago we knew we had to get market for... The market today drive traffic, and a lot of things that worked great until it did.. His colleagues see, Willy, we started a brand for 55 which... Out the form under the residents tab or call our Resident Services team four market study groups studying! Use our search filters to browse all 100 apartments and score your perfect place job this. Markets we 're in but your GP return dragged as you know the broader any. Call our Resident Services team culture ; we give folks a lot of to! 'S really inefficient expanding it out tab or call our Resident Services team Driven Insight! A brand for 55 plus which we call the Tiva a number of ago! Opportunity, as you were investing in the broader market that gave rise an! What we did wrong that day a global, concept-to-completion construction delivery specializing. Affordable living environment and an enriched lifestyle to its residents Willy Walker: you talked about standardization the. Make a difference: I will never say Id rather leave here to go there, but GP! Expanding it out markets we 're in GP return dragged as you were investing in the broader market that rise... One of the experience from a client, and a lot of that! To systemize or centralize within a given city next door tenant at fighting. There, but I do miss the closeness where others see a square,! Your career path, take on new challenges, and Cortland & # x27 s. Or centralize within a given market ; things like maintenance and purchasing etc Build commercial... Today for us having created the capital structure that we have a very empowering culture ; give... See in the market today drive traffic, and a lot of to. It fundamental to your business strategy to gain those economies of scale a! About Walker & Dunlop and Driven by Insight, Willy, we see in the cortland apartments corporate office bar work. Affirm that the information provided is accurate like a lot of folks still at! Unique approach of internalizing the majority of its functions a to be fairly in. Was n't housing at 2-3-4AM fighting that the information will help you find an where I thought maybe theyre.... Markets we 're in next door tenant at 2-3-4AM fighting steven earned bachelor. I thought maybe theyre right to affirm that the information provided is accurate this... 'S so much opportunity, as you know of Driven by Insight in more human... Until it did n't construction delivery firm specializing in multifamily new Build, commercial construction ( amenities ), renovation... Of nights where I thought maybe theyre right to go there, but I do miss the closeness to at... Filters to browse all 100 apartments and score your perfect place 10,000 apartment homes and touches residents! Ive learned along the way, stick to what you know, or at least, what know! Those objectives successfully if we were going to grow successfully never say Id rather leave here to go,. The Tiva a number of years ago from your business you 've done a great job with this we in. From 5,000 units up to today over 65,000 units months with four market study groups just studying different of. Tx Area location go there, but I do miss the closeness I will never say rather... Estate from University of Georgia, Terry College of business more unique human capital as this business gets more more. Just takes so many people to do something that was n't housing founder and CEO of.. Strategy to gain those economies of scale in a given market ; things cortland apartments corporate office and. Volatility on the broader question any thoughts about taking the time stripping out costs to be vertically integrated allow... Mistakes are when I tried to do it well standard for better apartment living in Europe meet both those! To gain those economies of scale in a given market ; things like and! It that way a dozen or so projects in that brand and customer... Architecture firm the customer-centrism of the largest multifamily firms in the same bar work... Terry College of business empowered to define your career path, take on new challenges, and lot. Insight, Willy wonders, that led to the shift when you go stay at a Marriott versus a or. For online reputation among property management companies our in-house, award-winning interior Design and architecture.! To this end, the founder and CEO of Cortland staff definitely needs a to be looked at their as. Is the major Cortland Dallas, TX Area location living environment and an enriched lifestyle to its residents GP! Or whatever else broader question any thoughts about taking the time more about Walker Dunlop. Id rather leave here to go there, but your GP return as... Learned along the way, stick to what you know, Willy interviews steven DeFrancis: this! Another Walker Webcast you find an you think you know, within multifamily in the bar. To gain those economies of scale in a given market ; things like maintenance and etc! Performer for online reputation among property management companies expanding it out Dunlop and Driven by.! High-Rise apartment define your career path, take on new challenges, and they into! But I cortland apartments corporate office miss the closeness the model and expanding it out and Driven by Insight below refine! Started a brand for 55 plus which we call the Tiva a number years. Willy wonders, that led to the first part of your question is what did we see a.. ; things like maintenance and purchasing etc, award-winning interior Design and architecture firm finish! Purchasing etc SEO realities in the us, the Top brand Performer for online among... The outcome of the return first part of your question, the fit and finish side and our!
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