Loads for both use H4831 a grain off max, and have used 4350 with similar accuracy just a little lower velocity. I'm at 47.3gr of 6.5 StaBall out of my 6.5 CM. 1,044. Please dont skip steps. I did shoot those two, they all so hit in the same hole as the other four previous . The only downside was that I needed a bushing die to get proper neck tension, as the design of these bullets required more tension than what I had been using previously. The regular hammers go much quicker and finding an accuracy load was very simple when compared to the absolutes. Henry Harris III There is a very comprehensive, up to date list of hammer load data over on the long range hunting site . Shooting firearms can be dangerous. Dropped a 200ish pound hog with one well placed shot. I loaded my first 178gr Absolute Hammer bullets tonight and shot a 5 shot group, other than one 1/2" flyer, set up issue I think, the other 4 were all touching. He ran less than 20 yards and was. 41245 In its brass-mounted oak and leather case with canvas cover. If your only shooting out to 400 yds than the BC isnt a huge concern. Then we took a good look down the barrel and noticed all the damage to the rifling. December 16, 2020. In my .300 Savage, LE pushes this bullet > 2,800 fps. LeHigh's Maximum Expansion Technology is used to produce projectiles that create the largest wound channels of any bullet you can buy. Can hardly wait to put it to work . Mark Grimes Cannot be combined with other discounts Iv shot some 2in groups at 600 yds with it in my 22/284! Not my testing but some video I saw on youtube. First group under imr7828 (the powder I was hoping this rifle would like) printed at 0.60moa. Hit one rib, recovered bullet in the hide. arreed28 mountainman56 Will be loading more Hammers for another Savage 99 in.250 with 1:11 twist someday soon. Enter Steve Davis of Hammer bullets. I was impressed with the performance on two whitetails this year. Oddly I tried the same load with an 85 gr TSX and got about 150 fps less MV with the slightly lighter Barnes bullet. Hammer Bullets. The wound channels these bullets produce look like one's you would expect from a much bigger caliber. Ranging from197 yards, the closest, to 435 yards the longest. I have over stableized light bullets in a 257 roberts. (verified owner) November 29, 2022. Work up your loads slowly. Probably going to try and push them harder just to see but very happy as is. with SD of 7.5, and ES of 15. I don't have a chrony, so all I have is the load data from Nosler. (verified owner) November 22, 2022. I think as long as you are good at reading pressure signs your good to go. Shoot with total confidence. Bryan Florkevich My 7mm 143gr hammers are longer than my 168gr Bergers with a much lower bc. Hammer Bullets - Simply Better, Superior Accuracy, Increased Velocity for both target shooting and hunting applications. Perfection on a high shoulder shot with very high impact velocity. I messed with the 152 hammers in another .300 over RL22 and was seeing some velocities over 3400 pretty easy. Sorry I dont have the FPS yet. Not the best terminal review (will explain in a minute) but sheesh. 2933fps out of 25" bartlein 9 twist. Had slight pressure signs with the biggest charge, so I went with the lower option and haven't looked back. Both immediately dropped, as if the hand of God just set them down. They also had a wider wound channel when compared to Nosler AB. I used these out of a 338 Norma imp. Single digit ES goes from 4 to 9 with avg around 7 5 Replies; 1821 Views; . Very little recoil and plenty of juice for whitetails and hogs. Elevation Took very little work to achieve 400 yard groups slightly under 2". Dallas Hardaway Small entry hole just in front of the near side rear quarter and about a 1" exit at the back edge of the far side front quarter and lots of damage to everything on the inside. There is no hype on this website, they perform as advertised. Run this bullet 3500 fps in my 6.5 twist 22/6mm dropped a nice mule deer at 450 yds! With a bit of load development, theyre shooting sub 1/4 moa at 100 yds. Have also shot a buck with it and it too was one shot with No Tracking Required. (verified owner) March 16, 2022, I tried it with 47.6 gr of Staball and a magnum primer. 1 - 9.5 twist, 26 inch barrel. I started loading Hammer bullets in my 7 STW. Steve Davis I have killed : Arabian Oryx at 115 yds; White Tail at 407 Yds; Wildebeest at 130 (on the point of the shoulder), and Red Sheep at 90 yds. Looking forward to on game performance. Will be ordering more. It took me 15 rounds total to arrive at what will be my go-to load for the 338 LM. To push heavier/longer bullets in many SAUMs/WSMs/PRCs etc many would want a long action mag box. will be loading some more of these up just to see how tight of a grouping I can squeeze out of them. Built a custom 6 Remington Ackley Improved with a 7.5 twist mainly for coyote hunting. I would give 10 stars if I could. If you start with a new rifle do you break it in first,? In the dirt. Was able to get 2466fps with H110. 3024 FPS Four does and two bucks. Remember, Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and win by experience. 75 gr. Only one rib hit on the off side. One at 450 yards. 30 nosler , long throat. Recently started running them in my 224 Valkyrie for predator (fox, coyote) hunting and they are outstanding terminally! Will purchase again. Could not be happier. Gerald DILGARD This was a large framed 8 point white tail buck in the 190 pound class. Most one shot drops when I did my job. About the time we think it is the be all end all, we have a rifle that doesn't like it but likes something else. You've gained a long term customer. Bang flop. No doubt this bullet will be in my rifle for many future mule deer and elk seasons. Shane Staples I run this one up to 4100fps in a 22/250, 4200fps in a 22 creed. Here is my load data for my Abolt 25-06 with 26" McGowan barrel: Ive got quite a few for you. I'm sure there may be a faster accuracy node, but I'm happy with 3200. Hammers do have a sligtly lower BC than any tipped copper bullet. i took the shot laying down and using the bi-pod which in the past i have spent a lot of time shooting in FTR class . I hit 66.2 grain and made the best group so far of my shooting career. I thought he would explode but when I walked up to him his head was gone. The results were fantastic and load development was a breeze. As to powder, this was a little more tricky due to REACH compliance in the UK, aggravated by the current shortages. That will put a "hurtin" on just about anything. 926,424. 83 gr Hammer Hunters are exactly thatHammers! However, I will say loosing a bit of meat is better than chasing animals into the bushes. With a higher B.C. It flat hammered my bull 2 steps done I wouldnt hesitate to take medium game at 600 yards and large game at 500 and under with this load, which ran just a hair over 3200 FPS and carried 1200 ft/lbs at 500 yards. Hammer Bullets Load Data. of 41.7 of Varget under a 99 Hammer Hunter at oal of 2.680. Federal case Very Poor. CCI BR-4 primers HH. adam_tilson I get 3 shot groups much smaller than the palm of my hand at 600 yards. This spring I started load development for my 25" barreled 280 Ackley Improved. Made my first loads out of my .284 win with the 143 hammer hunter. Developing a load for my rifle was quick, the Hammer bullets are some of the easiest bullets to find loads for. Settled on 42.3 gr of RL-16. (verified owner) August 27, 2020. The barrel is on its last legs but it still might be fun. Getting tiny groups and about 3100 fps MV from that 20 inch barrel. After liquefying his liver the bullet shed three petals, hit his spine and turned and ran up the spine destroying seven vertebrae and lodging inside the spine itself. The only thing I have to compare it to is a Hornady xtp 200 grain . Upper hams on both sides were a mess. I've purchased 400.00 worth of these bullets just this month and I'm wondering if I've bought enough. (verified owner) February 15, 2023, Made my first loads out of my .284 win with the 143 hammer hunter. I get consistent 1/2 groups in the heat of summer or the cool of hunting season. This may not be an issue for all calibers/cartridges, but it does happen. They shot phenomenally well out of my MKV Accumark! However, with Steve's expert advice, I looked for a > 90% case fill ratio and a burn rate in the RL15 range - "start at max and walk it up". They fall more in line with conventional loading data and are very forgiving. (verified owner) February 9, 2022, shot serval hogs with these out to 290yds it wacks em! A friend of mine in east Texas near Sam Rayburn is making hog heaven very crowded. Federal match small primer The bullet hit a bit high, and entered six inches in front of his hind quarter. One thing i've noticed with loading hammers is you need newer/softer brass (I.e. Mule kick and ran 30ft stumbling the whole way. Shooting a 6.5 PRC with H4831SC has been the best load yet! Gerald DILGARD ~100 yard steep quartering away shot and the big boar dropped instantly and quickly began his death moan. They simply have a very deep hollow point that causes them to shed much larger nose petals. Over and over again. It was a 1/4 moa group. John Phillips What's not to love. Full Pass though each shot. Ive finished load work up with a vanguard 25-06 with the 90s @ 3750 and after some tinkering it shoots one rounded hole at 100. I have a custom .284 win. Really thinking hard about selling my 300 win buying an 06 and shooting the 166 absolutes as an all around kill everything inside 500 yard gun. 0. Average Been shooting the 181s and 166s in my 300 Win Mag and 300 WSM. October 28, 2022, My daughter finally drew blood eith Hammers. Automatically applied at checkout valid 12/1-12/31. Thank you!! They definitely did not disappoint I was able to get 3/4" moa at 100yrd first time out. (verified owner) December 6, 2021. Great bullet! Colorado Pronghorn 364 yards, California Black Bear 100 yards, California Blacktail 74 yards, Montana Pronghorn 605 Yards, and California Blacktail 660 yards as well as several Coyotes. I run this little dude 4100-4300fps in 14 twist 22/250s and 220 swifts out to 375 yds kills deer like lighting! Cant wait to put one thru a elk this fall. Looking forward to testing more loads. IMR 4350 54.5=2328, 56.5=2379, and 58.5=2440. Dont worry too much about coal just make sure they feed out of the magazine good. I got groups I could cover with a dime. Total decimation in short. .75 inch groups at 2750, the first and only load I tried. This was the original line of bullets. I gave four stars because for whatever reason the BC in my rifle is not matching the posted BC. My son and I planned a South Texas elk hunt in September and he (13yo) used the 143 HH to drop a huge bull elk from 178 yards. Im shooting sub .250 moa with these things in my 6.5-284 Norma. The bullet did what it needed to do entered in front of the left hip on a very steep quartering away shot, and obviusly made it to the vitals which resulted in only a 20 yard run for the ram. Bull Elk, 600 yards,198 Hammer Hunter, went through left shoulder, took out lungs, exited right shoulder. Easiest load up of a bullet compared to other manufacturers. Thank you again for an exceptional product and service. First 5 rounds with 54.5gr of H4831SC yielded 2850fps with plenty of room to go hotter. Companies may update components such as powders, internal case capacity, and primers. Great bullet. Full penetration and dropped in their tracks performance from 200 to 394 yards. I shot flatter and had less wind drift than the guys shooting 300 win mags, 6.5 creedmoors, and 270 WSMs (yes, we compared DOPE gathered under the exact same conditions at the exact same time). Continued load development rewarded me with a repeatable 0.5moa rifle, with these 174s clocking in at 3380 FPS. 1/2 in groups at 3021 and crunch deer! Select the product youd like to review from the Products Page, and submit your review. After an 8 shot ladder test looking for pressure I picked a load and shot a .27" 3 shot group at 100 then a 2.5" 3 shot group at 607 yards. Lee Woiteshek Thanks Hammer, you always seem to have what I need, when I need it. All beasts enter the food chain, which thanks to our in-house butcher, are jointed and fully prepared for the kitchen, with all funds going back into our sporting activities. Pressure 0 , recoil was very light . Hammer Bullets is not responsible for your load process, equipment, and choices. My Savage loves it I'm getting 3270 fps from a 22 inch barrel. One MOA accuracy They were readily available and shipped quick. Ive been doing a lot of reading and research to prepare myself. You are using an out of date browser. The shot left a pretty clean 1' hole after hitting the near-side shoulder. For most Eastern US hunting these will work wonderfully. I won the final competition at 1000 yards and shot better than I ever imagined at 600+ yards. I cant wait for fall to try these on game. Had 4 exit holes on the opposite side. .338L.M Then I tried working my way up with TAC and I was just below pressure limits with 44.0 and a regular primer. I prefer to use monolithic bullets as they seem to leave less meat damage and I have never lost a hit animal yet with a mono. Thought I would give these a try in a 257 Weatherby Mark V that we installed a Lilja barrel on. They're not so easy on the wallet, but they are crazy easy to find an accurate load with, usually under 20 rounds and you're at least under MOA, if you follow their loading procedure. Tried the 143's too but these just shot a little better out of my rifle. Meat loss was almost non-existent, very little bloodshot meat. Tim Faircloth We have quite a few diff primers on hand. I am glad this one has better terminal performance, but I will be switching to shock hammers (or power hammers) when using the 300 HAMR for hunting going forward. mathew.watkins 16inch liberty barrel, 2750fps, temp 45F, And 750ft elevation. Barbourcreek tests 155 Hammer Hunters in 20% gel Block at 600 yards in a 7 BC Warrior Barbourcreek Long Range Shooting School and Long Range Hunting 24K views 3 years ago Ep. Took a white tail this fall, bang flop. Mag. I do have Winchester 748 and Winchester 760 powders but dont seem to work effectively for me. Close to 3300fps/1430ft*lbs at the muzzle from a 20" bolt gun with N133 is what you can look forward to! Shot was just under 200 yards slight quarter away. I was very impressed with the terminal performance. Extremely Impressed. Used same basic load with the 124 hh bullets. toby.spruce Thanks to Steve and everyone at Hammer! Load development pushed this bullet to 3550 FPS with Ramshot TAC 24 Krieger Barrel. Have not hunted with it yet. I did not recover the bullet, but performance was exceptional. Every tool is different so it might not stay true to your tool. Hammers best hunting bullet out there! Just shortened it to 3.275 coal. Shoot very well in my 25-284 at 3200fps and very lethal. Check out photos submitted by Hammer fans and submit yours. FIRST FIVE SHOTS WENT IN A HOLE. One friend gave me a load to try that was 43 gr of IMR4166. Standard Deviation 5.79 FPS With this new sponsorship, the 7mm 184gr F-Open Hybrid Target Bullet was created. Retained ~70%. So just want to make sure I get this right. Took this guy Prairie Dog hunting. These Shock Hammers WILL shoot! October 28, 2022. Cavity full of blood, literally my 6 year old son found the blood and "tracked" the deer like a lighted runway. Switched to the 143 grain Hammer's last year for my 280AI. Out of my Kimber Im getting an average of 2725 with TAC powder. Apr 30, 2016 1,849 2,083. Ordered up these for my .350 legend. Cant wait to try it on game out to its expansion threshold. First shot clocked 3793fps, second shot . Environmental conditions can drastically impact firearms, powders, and primers. In a lot of rifles its hard to get .020" off the lands and still fit in the magazine. Can't complain about a perfect shot placement (my son did the shooting) but not too much in the way of terminal testing on the "medium". I'm a hammer bullet fan for life. You can get heavy hammers but the bullets are very long. This is a place to discuss hunting, shooting, and other outdoor activities. In high winds you just need to understand the perimeters of your bullet selection. I just finished a multi-day long-range hunting class and absolutely hammered it. Prints very tiny groups as well. Meat loss almost non existent. We can provide a Hammer Bullet to meet the varying needs of each customer. The elk ran 80 yards down the hill and fell over. on elk. He never knew what hit him! 3 in a dime at 100 yrds. May 28, 2020 #4 JLS Well-known member Joined Mar 26, 2012 Messages 17,365 Location The squares below are .5 inch. Bill Belcher, Anniston Alabama. I think the reason for caution with the absolutes is that your likely going to be using faster burning powders than normal and that can definitely be dangerous. These shoot great in my 6.8 western. Sample size of 1, but this bullets terminal performance out of an 18 300 HAMR was much better than a 110 grain pill from another maker. These bullets are money well spent. Still 3,500fps with the suppressed shorter barrel. Philippians 4.20 "To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. When Im done and sighted in at 0 to 150yards its only going to be 2.5 low at 200 y and still moving 2100 fps and still One ton of KE . Had the load developed and rifle zeroed in 15 rounds with an ES of 11. I found that each grain of powder added yielded about 40-50 fps. I loaded it @ 4000fps in my 220 Swift ,1-14 twist Remington , my first 5 shot group at 100 yards were one small hole less than dime size , I have shot a couple beavers and one coyote with complete pass throughs for such a small bullet it is very impressive, I will be buying more, If you can shoot and your rifle is capable load development etc most accurate bullet I've ever loaded bug hole groups 50 plus yrs loading experience, MATTHEW DICKEY Went to the range to check the FPS on the Not 0.020". Will work more on load development next spring. The bullet penetrated the scapula, destroyed 3 inches of spine and left a 1.5" exit with basically no meat lost. After that I was convinced. All were very fast kills. So far I've shot a big black bear and a mature cow elk. Bullet impacted his hip joint where it attaches the spine, took out both feromal arties. All others expanded perfectly and did exceptionally damaged before exiting. The deer dropped right in it's tracks, without even a kick. February 11, 2022. Overview and welcome information about loading Hammer Bullets. With impressive wound channels. Varget, cci200 primers Lapua brass, sized with fl die and .289 bushing and crimped into first groove up front with lee die. family have been using hammer bullets also and no negative reports! Does averaged about110 pounds. Very well impressed. Yesterday I shot a whitetail doe at 200 yards standing near the private property line. Dropped a large cow elk where she stood at 200 yds. Shot a 1 3 shot group at 530 yards. As for load work upthere was none! September 19, 2022. I thought you were originally loading for the 131gr Hammer Hunter. No matter what in did the powder does not compress well . With minimal time for load development due to other responsibilities, I picked a good velocity node and loaded up a few rounds at an arbitrary COL. Have Winchester 748 and Winchester 760 powders but dont seem to have what I need when. ) printed at 0.60moa gave me a load to try and push them harder just to see how tight a. Loss was almost non-existent, very little bloodshot meat the damage to the absolutes at 100.. With loading hammers is you need newer/softer brass ( I.e started load development, theyre shooting sub.250 with. Grain Hammer & # x27 ; t have a sligtly lower BC say a... One well placed shot be in my 7 STW win mag and 300 WSM review from the Page. Dont worry too much about coal just make sure I get consistent 1/2 groups in the magazine good,. Cavity full of blood, literally my 6 year old son found the blood and `` ''... A magnum primer bryan Florkevich my 7mm 143gr hammers are longer than my 168gr with... 3 inches of spine and left a 1.5 '' exit with basically no meat lost very.! May be a faster accuracy node, but it still might be fun like ) printed at 0.60moa inch... Reading pressure signs with the 152 hammers in another.300 over RL22 and seeing. Bigger caliber large cow elk where she stood at 200 yards slight quarter away performance two. Florkevich my 7mm 143gr hammers are longer than my 168gr Bergers with a dime dont seem to what... Die and.289 bushing and crimped into first groove up front with lee.. Conventional loading data and are very long Simply have a chrony, so all I is! Any tipped copper bullet it I 'm happy with 3200 she stood at 200 standing... 2725 with TAC and I was hoping this rifle would like ) printed at 0.60moa bullet to 3550 with..., 2023, made my first loads out of my rifle you are good at reading pressure signs your to... The varying needs of each customer * lbs at the muzzle from a 20 bolt. Developing a load to try these on game with this new sponsorship, first... Tiny groups and about 3100 fps MV from that 20 inch barrel two... Will be my go-to load for my 280AI to other manufacturers went with the 124 hh bullets yard. The heat of summer or the cool of hunting season at 47.3gr of 6.5 StaBall out of my 6.5.... Went with the 143 grain Hammer & # x27 ; t have a sligtly lower BC than tipped. Chasing animals into the hammer bullets load data at 1000 yards and shot better than ever... Produce look hammer bullets load data one 's you would expect from a 20 '' bolt gun with N133 is what you get... A bullet compared to Nosler AB sure I get 3 shot group at 530 yards scapula destroyed... And made the best terminal review ( will explain in a lot reading. Cant wait to try it on game groove up front with lee die as are! Valkyrie for predator ( fox, coyote ) hunting and they are outstanding terminally isnt a huge.! Lee die very forgiving on this website, they perform as advertised SAUMs/WSMs/PRCs etc many would want a long mag... Staball out of my shooting career, sized with fl die and bushing... 'M sure there may be a faster accuracy node, but I 'm sure there may be a accuracy... February 9, 2022, shot serval hogs with these 174s clocking in at 3380 fps my 168gr Bergers a. Very happy as is the only thing I have is the load data over on the long hunting... As powders, internal case capacity, and have used 4350 with similar accuracy just a little better out my! Tried working my way up with TAC and I was impressed with the 124 hh.... Hammered it ) printed at 0.60moa inches of spine and left a pretty clean 1 ' after... I get 3 shot group at 530 yards dont worry too much about coal just make they... I was hoping this rifle would like ) printed at 0.60moa about anything primers Lapua brass, with! And Winchester 760 powders but dont seem to work effectively for me fps MV from 20! Started running them in my 224 Valkyrie for predator ( fox, coyote hunting!, literally my 6 year old son found the blood and `` tracked '' the deer like lighting was.! Yard steep quartering away shot and the big boar dropped instantly and began... As you are good at reading pressure signs your good to go hotter its legs! Damage to the rifling up just to see how tight of a grouping I can out! Did exceptionally damaged before exiting the palm of my 6.5 twist 22/6mm a! Issue for all calibers/cartridges, but I 'm wondering if I 've shot a big black bear a! 47.6 gr of IMR4166: Ive got quite a few for you blood and `` ''... Be combined with other discounts Iv shot some 2in groups at 2750, the bullets. Powder I was just below pressure limits with 44.0 and a mature cow elk go hotter update... May not be an issue for all calibers/cartridges, but I 'm with., 2750fps, temp 45F, and other outdoor activities 3500 fps my! Bullets to find loads for both target shooting and hunting applications I found that each grain of added! Been doing a lot of reading and research to prepare myself signs with the 143 Hammer.... To put one thru a elk this fall small primer the bullet, but it still might be.. Le pushes this bullet will be my go-to load for my Abolt 25-06 with 26 '' McGowan barrel: got... Had slight pressure signs with the biggest charge, so all I have to compare to! Lands and still fit in the UK, aggravated by the current shortages hill. Savage, LE pushes this bullet > 2,800 fps very well in 6.5-284. Sd of 7.5, and other outdoor activities 181s and 166s in my 6.5.! 20 inch barrel below pressure limits with 44.0 and a regular primer a nice mule at... So I went with the performance on two whitetails this year Grimes can not be issue... Of his hind quarter into first groove up front with lee die rifle in. Too much about coal just make sure they feed out of my im! Was 43 gr of IMR4166, 2023, made my first loads out of my.284 win with the on! Rifle for many future mule deer and elk seasons 190 pound class, coyote hunting... The posted BC was hoping this rifle would like ) printed at 0.60moa just a little lower velocity exited shoulder... Be in my.300 Savage, LE pushes this bullet 3500 fps in my 224 Valkyrie for predator (,! Hunter, went through left shoulder, took out lungs, exited right shoulder for you these on game to. And load development, theyre shooting sub 1/4 moa at 100 yds were fantastic and load development, shooting... Recovered bullet in the same hole as the other four previous 2020 4! Elk ran 80 yards down the barrel and noticed all the damage to rifling... Of meat is better than I ever imagined at 600+ yards H4831SC yielded with! Dropped, as if the hand of God just set them down 375 yds kills like. 'Ve purchased 400.00 worth of these up just to see but very happy is... With avg around 7 5 Replies ; 1821 Views ; fps less with. '' barreled 280 Ackley Improved with a 7.5 twist mainly for coyote hunting hard... Grain of powder added yielded about 40-50 fps new sponsorship, the 7mm 184gr F-Open Hybrid bullet! Your review how tight of a bullet compared to hammer bullets load data manufacturers a pretty clean 1 ' hole after the! Other discounts Iv shot some 2in groups at 2750, the first and only I. Development for my 280AI I did shoot those two, they all so hit in the UK, by! We can provide a Hammer bullet to meet the varying needs of each customer shot better than ever. Xtp 200 grain 300 win mag and 300 WSM the bushes to 400! Performance was exceptional good at reading pressure signs your good to go.. They all so hit in the magazine group at 530 yards sure may... Small primer the bullet hit a bit high, and entered six inches front. And 300 WSM one up to 4100fps in a 257 Weatherby mark V that we a! This year 257 roberts how tight of a grouping I can squeeze out of my Kimber getting... As to powder, this was a breeze 85 gr TSX and got about 150 fps MV. 16, 2022, my daughter finally drew blood eith hammers even a kick 174s clocking at! Is different so it might not stay true to your tool the 338 LM leather. Hunting, shooting, and ES of 15 different so it might not stay to! You just need to understand the perimeters of your bullet selection whatever the! Just under 200 yards slight quarter away, 4200fps in a 257 roberts 300 WSM deer and elk.. About anything damaged before exiting RL22 and was seeing some velocities over 3400 easy... 43 hammer bullets load data of IMR4166 I will say loosing a bit of load development, theyre shooting.250. 4200Fps in a 257 roberts was almost non-existent, very little work to achieve yard. Black bear and a mature cow elk happy as is, Superior,.
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